Blitzortung.org Forum

Reading Anders' string of IF's pretty much confirms to me how I thought this looks like "behind the scenes". I doubt if it could be better explained. Read again.

If all the thoughts about these were raised and then rejected again in public, they would create more pro, and con posts. And also make the confusion total for those that don't know, or understand the reasons behind these iterations.

Do you think it is not like this in projects done by large companies? Having been both on the impatient end as well as inside projects, small and large, for more than 35 years I can tell you it is just like this almost every time. And there are usually several iterations before things are declared good enough for release. Shouting foul at developers is as counterproductive as it can get.

Hi together,

first of all, we are sorry for all these issues in communication. We didn't realize that there might have be some misunderstanding in the past.

If you have questions, then please ask them.

(2014-09-11, 18:59)Detlef_A Wrote: [ -> ]This kind of communication scheme is intransparent, the conduct of the people in charge is arrogant: "keep them stupid, the idiots"

As mentioned, this was never our intention. We don't have a real timeline of the project and often our own plans change due to some unforeseen changes.

(2014-09-11, 18:59)Detlef_A Wrote: [ -> ]There are other projects, who can keep there clientele much more happy. Maybe you still can improve, hopefully.

What do you mean with "clientele"? Our participants, those who want to join our website visitors? Please tell us about these other projects.

(2014-09-11, 20:01)BobW Wrote: [ -> ]There is nothing to keep you from building the station without getting a kit of parts. The schematic for the controller and amps is shown, and it can be built. The Discovery firmware and the firmware for the amp controllers can be downloaded.

This is possible, but you shouldn't do that. We can not give any support for such a hardware. If we will release a hardware next year (I hope!), then you might be disappointed for wasting time and money.

(2014-09-11, 20:22)weatherc Wrote: [ -> ]- There are a huge demand for new kits who's looks and looks for when they will be available, OK.

Not just huge (that was last year), but enormous. Several days with around 600 requests.

(2014-09-11, 20:22)weatherc Wrote: [ -> ]- First, in beginning of July, they are out for month-two. OK. But nowhere was any closer status about this.

Everybody who requested got a mail, but we ourselves didn't had enough information for more precise answer.

(2014-09-11, 20:22)weatherc Wrote: [ -> ]- When the kits finally went available, was there, if i remember right, nowhere any statements about the limited amount and that they are available only for areas with bad coverage.

We did send mails to those outside of Europe who requested a kit in the months before. I think there have been almost thousand recipients.

(2014-09-11, 20:22)weatherc Wrote: [ -> ]- And then few days later they went out for the rest of the year.

The kits were sold out after a few days. We tried so send them mainly to regions where some gaps have to be filled.

(2014-09-11, 20:22)weatherc Wrote: [ -> ]- As the creame of the cake was there some kind of "automatic answering-mashine-moderator" who put virtually same answer on all the questions.

Where? In our emails? Of course we often can not answer every question individually as they are mainly the same, so we use templates (but still answer individually if needed).

(2014-09-11, 20:22)weatherc Wrote: [ -> ]With this strategy, and if had waited for a kit, i had been really disappointed too, and, looked for other solutions.

You already have a station!? Why do you need a second one?

(2014-09-11, 20:22)weatherc Wrote: [ -> ]1. Why was the network expanded outside Europe if it is not ready for it?

Because during the last weeks we saw that the should put some more work into the optimization, instead of adding more and more stations. It's often not so obvious what's going on, TOA isn't that simple. Also remember that every station costs money - your money!

(2014-09-11, 20:22)weatherc Wrote: [ -> ]2. Why not expand to just one area at time instead of whole world at once?

There is no reason to do so.


Please note that I personally will not answer on such criticism any more if not really needed. Please believe us that we will try to do the best for YOU. We will keep you updated as much as possible.


Have FUN!

Best regards
Tobi

I would like to add to Tobi's response which, by the way, probably took him away from working on the Blitzortung project for quite some time. Time that I am sure he could use on the project rather than trying to defend his actions and those of the other developers.

If you haven't noticed, the development team has enlisted the help of a few of us to assist them in handling the forum. The intent of this is simply to allow the developers to work on the things they need to be working on and not answering the myriad of questions being asked on the forums.

However, Tobi has now stepped-in when it became apparent that even though we have attempted to answer your questions relative to kit availability, many of you simply won't accept the facts that have been put forth by any of us. Tobi has very clearly shown, in numbers, the high volume of questions and requests for kits they have been getting even though it has been clearly stated in the forum that they are not currently available. Once again, all of these requests detract the developers from the tasks.

So, let's all take a deep breath, relax and let the developers do their thing (the way they want to do it, which just might not be the way you or I think it should be done ). In due time; however, those new kits and servers will be ready for more expansion.

Apologies if I have offended anyone. You will hear from me no more until invited to buy a kit.

Good luck!

Good Morning everyone,

I understand the kit will not be available for couple of month, but is the circuit board for the controller and the Amplifier is still available as i'm ready to find the part somewhere else and build the kit myself.

If the board is available, how we process to order it and what is the price to ship in Canada. I have probably 3 or 4 person in my area who is ready to setup a station and we just need the circuit board.

Please confirm.

Thank you.

Hello Sylvain,

Check the "Blitzortung.org in general" internal forum. ;)
There is a post from Egon.

Regards,

Quote:Where? In our emails?

No, on the forums.

Quote:You already have a station!? Why do you need a second one?

Yes, as i said, IF i had waited for getting a station had i been disappointed too....

Quote:Not just huge (that was last year), but enormous. Several days with around 600 requests.

I'm sure lots of those requests and other frustations/disappointments had could been avoided with a simple "kits availability"-thread, like the firmware-thread in internal forum, with up-to-date-info about "out of stocks", when available, for what areas, for who, etc.
With other words, with better communication.

// henkka

Hi Folks

(2014-09-12, 11:52)Sylvain.Cadieux Wrote: [ -> ]I understand the kit will not be available for couple of month, but is the circuit board for the controller and the Amplifier is still available as i'm ready to find the part somewhere else and build the kit myself.

I have probably 3 or 4 person in my area who is ready to setup a station and we just need the circuit board.

(2014-09-12, 12:27)DelandeC Wrote: [ -> ]Hello Sylvain,

Check the "Blitzortung.org in general" internal forum.
There is a post from Egon.

Regards,

I also asked for the naked board. I was told there are none available. That doesn't seeem to be true for everybody.

I'm fully aware that the developers do their very best in the limited time they can spend on this project. May be they are overrun to some extent by the overwhelming success.

But why not surf on that wave: Release the board layout data to the public (Gerber or whatever) and supply a list of components. By this you get rid of all the kit handling stuff.

Board layout data, component list, program download, server access, that is all the skilled crowd out there is in need of to participate. So you, the developers, get your hands free to keep the backbone running instead of replying to 600 inquiries and forum posts. All the sucessful 'open' projects I'm aware of (Raspberry, Red Pitaya ..) do not handle their hardware.

Thanks for the project
hope can join soon too
73 from Berlin/Germany
Detlef
DD4WV

(2014-09-12, 22:21)Detlef_A Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Folks

(2014-09-12, 11:52)Sylvain.Cadieux Wrote: [ -> ]I understand the kit will not be available for couple of month, but is the circuit board for the controller and the Amplifier is still available as i'm ready to find the part somewhere else and build the kit myself.

I have probably 3 or 4 person in my area who is ready to setup a station and we just need the circuit board.

(2014-09-12, 12:27)DelandeC Wrote: [ -> ]Hello Sylvain,

Check the "Blitzortung.org in general" internal forum.
There is a post from Egon.

Regards,

I also asked for the naked board. I was told there are none available. That doesn't seeem to be true for everybody.

I'm fully aware that the developers do their very best in the limited time they can spend on this project. May be they are overrun to some extent by the overwhelming success.

But why not surf on that wave: Release the board layout data to the public (Gerber or whatever) and supply a list of components. By this you get rid of all the kit handling stuff.

Board layout data, component list, program download, server access, that is all the skilled crowd out there is in need of to participate. So you, the developers, get your hands free to keep the backbone running instead of replying to 600 inquiries and forum posts. All the sucessful 'open' projects I'm aware of (Raspberry, Red Pitaya ..) do not handle their hardware.

Thanks for the project
hope can join soon too
73 from Berlin/Germany
Detlef
DD4WV

I'm not sure I understand.... you seem to believe this system is "open source"? It isn't.

Nor is it "plug and play:. Nor is it for those who cannot supply accurate data to the network, for whatever reason, noise, extra signals, inability to mediate interfering signals, those who build 'systems' with parts that do not conform to the standards laid out...... or for those who simply want an operator's "id" to use the raw data... etc.... .

Schematics etc are available on the web for various "lightning detector" receivers, including Blitzortung http://www.blitzortung.org/Documents/TOA...ng_RED.pdf? .... find 'em and build 'em as you wish.... That does NOT mean your system can interface with Blitzortung, even if you've purchased "Blitzortung Boards",.... if you decide a 10% tolerance resistor is as good as a 1% and want help from this forum and the developers, you may find you've invested time and money in a losing situation.... .

and please remember, this "network" does NOT have a goal of "compatibility" as 'generic' projects. The goal is to locate and report time of lightning strikes and their location with the best accuracy possible. It's not about pleasing everybody. Sorry... that's the way it is. Someone is always bound to be unhappy, We wish it were not that way.., but it's a fact of life and development of "volunteer projects" everywhere.

What we'd ask, I think, is that folks simply accept things the way they are, at the moment... instead of 'complaining'.. offer solutions... some of which will be implemented, some of which will be ignored... put please, never consider it personal... !

We know we've got the best "free lance lightning data" network going... so do the "big boys"... and so do their clients!...

Let's not mess up that wonderful situation with all this negative,.... let's allow the system and network to grow and mature, and....
your time will come to be part of what will be one of the finest 'crowd sourcing' data service world wide... even though we call it a 'hobby'... someday you will read of a life you've saved somewhere far away, because they had been aware of Lightning through the websites, both BO and Participants, or through one of the APPS for smartphones....

But all this 'fussing' 'complaining' 'criticism' does NOT help.... it only delays things....
If anything, we should be encouraging the developers... who started it as a 'hobby'.... and are absolutely overwhelmed by the tremendous interest it has created...,

Please, allow a "learning curve" and give all of us a chance to produce the best damn lightning locating system the world has ever seen...

(2014-09-12, 22:21)Detlef_A Wrote: [ -> ]But why not surf on that wave: Release the board layout data to the public (Gerber or whatever) and supply a list of components. By this you get rid of all the kit handling stuff.

...

Board layout data, component list, program download, server access, that is all the skilled crowd out there is in need of to participate. So you, the developers, get your hands free to keep the backbone running instead of replying to 600 inquiries and forum posts. All the sucessful 'open' projects I'm aware of (Raspberry, Red Pitaya ..) do not handle their hardware.

You can NOT compare those projects with us! Our hardware is only one of several parts in the project. All the other things like firmware, servers, computing algorithms, communication are needed too. Additionally our hardware has also an analogue part with a very specific broadband VLF amplifier. Please don't forget, that the stations depend on each other! An equal timing and signal quality is needed, otherwise the whole thing would not work. So far we don't know about other projects with similar requirements (in combination!). Unfortunately a lot of users don't understand that.

And of course the way of ordering and shipping hardware will be changed next year.

I was wondering if the team was interested in getting a kit setup in central North Carolina, USA. I am very interested in this system and I am already reporting weather data on a daily basis to various entities and am interested in the lightning detection aspect as well. Thank you for your time in reading this post and any response is appreciated.

(2014-09-29, 22:31)KK4EVR Wrote: [ -> ]I was wondering if the team was interested in getting a kit setup in central North Carolina, USA. I am very interested in this system and I am already reporting weather data on a daily basis to various entities and am interested in the lightning detection aspect as well. Thank you for your time in reading this post and any response is appreciated.

Hi William,

Kit ordering and shipping has been suspended until sometime next year. You can go to the "Cover your Area" tab on the Blitzortung.org website and fill-in the form to be notified when the hardware will be available again. The exact wording of the notice follows:

"We do not accept new orders this year, because the system needs some major upgrade to improve the location quality. Additionally, we want to offer some improved hardware next year in larger quantities. As soon as we have any detailed information about the further enhancements, we will post it on our website. If you have questions, then please use our forum instead of contacting us directly. If you want to get informed when new hardware is available please insert your email address."

Sorry for the answer but, that is how it is, for the time-being. We'll all need to show a little patience while the systems and servers are being improved. No one knows, at this point in time, when the announcement will come that they are accepting new orders.

73's - Don - W3DRM

(2014-09-30, 00:25)W3DRM Wrote: [ -> ]"We do not accept new orders this year, because the system needs some major upgrade to improve the location quality. Additionally, we want to offer some improved hardware next year in larger quantities. "

The last batch of reds seemed to go purely to new customers in the USA. I am in the UK but would like to upgrade my system to a RED system, but the way purchases have been handled recently it looks like if you have a system (any system) your not getting one again. so since we are on the subject, how many users are going to be allowed to upgrade their old systems for new ones in the future?

(2014-10-09, 22:47)Toxic Wrote: [ -> ]

(2014-09-30, 00:25)W3DRM Wrote: [ -> ]"We do not accept new orders this year, because the system needs some major upgrade to improve the location quality. Additionally, we want to offer some improved hardware next year in larger quantities. "

The last batch of reds seemed to go purely to new customers in the USA. I am in the UK but would like to upgrade my system to a RED system, but the way purchases have been handled recently it looks like if you have a system (any system) your not getting one again. so since we are on the subject, how many users are going to be allowed to upgrade their old systems for new ones in the future?

First of all, the limited number of kits on the final shipments of RED were cutoff on August 29 and went to the first responders in low coverage areas, which included Region 2 and Region 3 with none earmarked for the already dense Region 1. No, they did not all go to a privileged USA as you imply. Region 1 requests would have been filled after Aug 29 cutoff, had there been kits available. Once those initial orders were filled, that was it. The cupboard was bare. It was that simple.
Some changes will be made in order handling with any new revisions, from experience learned this year with the deluge of requests that simply could not be fulfilled, for several reasons... parts, logistics, etc.
Any revisions or new production is still months away. And you can expect anyone who orders will have the appropriate place in line, regardless of Region.

(2014-10-09, 23:10)Cutty Wrote: [ -> ]First of all, the limited number of kits on the final shipments of RED were cutoff on August 29 and went to the first responders in low coverage areas, which included Region 2 and Region 3 with none earmarked for the already dense Region 1. No, they did not all go to a privileged USA as you imply. Region 1 requests would have been filled after Aug 29 cutoff, had there been kits available. Once those initial orders were filled, that was it. The cupboard was bare. It was that simple.
Some changes will be made in order handling with any new revisions, from experience learned this year with the deluge of requests that simply could not be fulfilled, for several reasons... parts, logistics, etc.
Any revisions or new production is still months away. And you can expect anyone who orders will have the appropriate place in line, regardless of Region.

Thanks for the reply.

Hmmm I have been offered a kit now, I must be in an area they are trying to build up. Should I get the current kit now or hold out and wait for the new updated kit next year????

Jeff

(2014-12-24, 18:50)orion_jb2001 Wrote: [ -> ]Hmmm I have been offered a kit now, I must be in an area they are trying to build up. Should I get the current kit now or hold out and wait for the new updated kit next year????

Jeff

Up to you... no date set for a newer release....but I'd suggest early summer, perhaps. Surprises are nothing abnormal in this world of the Blitzortung Hobbyist... How're your technical skills? Many of us love the RED platform, and it's outstanding, and works well, especially with both E and H field, but there will be enhancements expected with any new release... and RED is NOT a "plug'n'play" device.

Where are you located?

Cheers!
Mike

(2014-12-25, 17:52)Cutty Wrote: [ -> ]How're your technical skills? Many of us love the RED platform, and it's outstanding, and works well, especially with both E and H field, but there will be enhancements expected with any new release... and RED is NOT a "plug'n'play" device.

The requirement to build it is something that I think is part of the popularity of the project, in addition to the result. While a plug and play device might be a nice option to have to get locations up that don't really have a technical person available, I think that for many, the construction of it is important. The current participants (including the developers, both hardware and software) should all be proud of their accomplishment. Otherwise, it's just "I bought this box that I plug in to power and Internet, and it somehow makes lightning locations show up on the computer".

(2014-12-25, 20:14)BobW Wrote: [ -> ]

(2014-12-25, 17:52)Cutty Wrote: [ -> ]How're your technical skills? Many of us love the RED platform, and it's outstanding, and works well, especially with both E and H field, but there will be enhancements expected with any new release... and RED is NOT a "plug'n'play" device.

The requirement to build it is something that I think is part of the popularity of the project, in addition to the result. While a plug and play device might be a nice option to have to get locations up that don't really have a technical person available, I think that for many, the construction of it is important. The current participants (including the developers, both hardware and software) should all be proud of their accomplishment. Otherwise, it's just "I bought this box that I plug in to power and Internet, and it somehow makes lightning locations show up on the computer".

I absolutely agree, there is a sense of accomplishment and pride in something you have built yourself that you don't get with an off the shelf solution, however not everyone has the skills or desire to build one, perhaps both a kit and a pre built solution should be offered?
Ben.

(2014-12-25, 17:52)Cutty Wrote: [ -> ]

(2014-12-24, 18:50)orion_jb2001 Wrote: [ -> ]Hmmm I have been offered a kit now, I must be in an area they are trying to build up. Should I get the current kit now or hold out and wait for the new updated kit next year????

Jeff

Up to you... no date set for a newer release....but I'd suggest early summer, perhaps. Surprises are nothing abnormal in this world of the Blitzortung Hobbyist... How're your technical skills? Many of us love the RED platform, and it's outstanding, and works well, especially with both E and H field, but there will be enhancements expected with any new release... and RED is NOT a "plug'n'play" device.

Where are you located?

Cheers!
Mike

I think my technical skills would be up to it. I am in Tamworth, northern New South Wales Australia