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+--- Thread: Launch of System Blue delayed (/showthread.php?tid=1406)
RE: Launch of System Blue delayed - W3DRM - 2015-11-10
(2015-11-09, 09:03)davmoo Wrote:(2015-10-10, 00:36)Cutty Wrote: As far as replacement parts....
You might have trouble getting the original GPS module, from what I understand, and have to do with a different version.... perhaps with a feature missing.
The PDF document contains lists of virtually all of the parts required... however some are quite specific... for example the specially chosen LED on the E field preamplifier.
Yes,... the boards themselves were last produced a year ago.
Before I get started with the "real" part of my post, let me apologize in advance if I come off sounding like a jerk. Especially in a first postI have nothing but respect for the developers of the project, and am truly amazed that they have put together a system of this magnitude as a purely volunteer effort without corporate or institutional funding. I also don't blame them for not open sourcing their software and algorithms. That's the product of their blood, sweat, and tears. And if anyone is ever going to get filthy rich off of that work, it should be them and not some corporate entity that found it on the internet and ran with it with no real work involved.
While sitting here tonight waiting for a large upload to happen, I went through the Red system PDF and checked the parts lists one component at t time. I can source every part needed, including the specified GPS module and LEDs, except for one part...the PC boards. (Note: I'm in the US. Outside of North America it may be harder to source everything, I honestly don't know.)
I agree totally that the developers should be focused on the development of Blue, and going back and recreating kits for Red is a massive step backwards and a major waste of their probably very limited time and money. But Gerber files for the Red boards sure would be nice.
David
David, the same questions/suggestions have been asked in many different ways on this forum. And, without being rude, suffice it to say that those suggestions have been rejected in the past and I suspect they will be rejected in the future.
Just think what it would mean for the developers to provide the Gerber files to the general public? It would/could result is total bedlam with everyone scrambling to build their own systems. Even with the Gerber files, who is going to be able to do any quality control on them to ensure they were made correctly. I've seen the results of poorly built circuit boards that caused more problems than they solved. The other side of that equation is the impact it could have on the servers and the developers who are currently preparing for the new BLUE system. They don't need to be further distracted with having to accommodate the unknown quality of any new systems coming on-line and the inherent issues that would follow in an attempt to do so.
Your interest and that of many others who are patiently waiting for the release of System Blue is well understood and appreciated. However, please try to understand why these suggestions can't be honored. You have really explained the reason for not doing what you are suggesting quite well in the first paragraph of your own post so we don't need to reiterate the same verbiage over and over again.
RE: Launch of System Blue delayed - davmoo - 2015-11-11
(2015-11-10, 01:51)W3DRM Wrote: Just think what it would mean for the developers to provide the Gerber files to the general public? It would/could result is total bedlam with everyone scrambling to build their own systems. Even with the Gerber files, who is going to be able to do any quality control on them to ensure they were made correctly. I've seen the results of poorly built circuit boards that caused more problems than they solved. The other side of that equation is the impact it could have on the servers and the developers who are currently preparing for the new BLUE system. They don't need to be further distracted with having to accommodate the unknown quality of any new systems coming on-line and the inherent issues that would follow in an attempt to do so.
True. But. At one time, at least according to the email I received when I inquired the first time about a kit, bare PC boards were offered for individual sale for those who could source their own parts (and I should have pulled the trigger right then and there, but had too many other irons in the fire at the time). No quality control was done on purchased parts then. How would releasing the Gerber files now be any different? Also, even if a full kit was bought, one could still muck it up in the soldering and produce volumes of unreliable data. If they had been offering full ready to go plug and play devices I would agree with you about quality control. But that's not what was offered. If The Powers That Be do not want to offer the PC board details because they just don't want to, that's fine, its their project, and they can do with it as they wish. But there is no technical reason for not releasing them.
David
RE: Launch of System Blue delayed - W3DRM - 2015-11-11
(2015-11-11, 06:27)davmoo Wrote:(2015-11-10, 01:51)W3DRM Wrote: Just think what it would mean for the developers to provide the Gerber files to the general public? It would/could result is total bedlam with everyone scrambling to build their own systems. Even with the Gerber files, who is going to be able to do any quality control on them to ensure they were made correctly. I've seen the results of poorly built circuit boards that caused more problems than they solved. The other side of that equation is the impact it could have on the servers and the developers who are currently preparing for the new BLUE system. They don't need to be further distracted with having to accommodate the unknown quality of any new systems coming on-line and the inherent issues that would follow in an attempt to do so.
True. But. At one time, at least according to the email I received when I inquired the first time about a kit, bare PC boards were offered for individual sale for those who could source their own parts (and I should have pulled the trigger right then and there, but had too many other irons in the fire at the time). No quality control was done on purchased parts then. How would releasing the Gerber files now be any different? Also, even if a full kit was bought, one could still muck it up in the soldering and produce volumes of unreliable data. If they had been offering full ready to go plug and play devices I would agree with you about quality control. But that's not what was offered. If The Powers That Be do not want to offer the PC board details because they just don't want to, that's fine, its their project, and they can do with it as they wish. But there is no technical reason for not releasing them.
David
David,
Your point is well taken, however, policies and methods do change in any project or hobby. Just like on the original GREEN systems and now the RED systems, all development and distribution efforts have ceased on those versions of the Blitzortung system. The developers are simply concentrating on the next generation of detectors to be released. To start releasing any portion of the RED system now would impact their ability to continue with new development activities. Remember, this is NOT a commercial endeavor where you can simply throw more resources (manpower) into a project to increase your work efforts. It is a hobby with the same number of primary developers as there were when the first GREEN system was released years ago. The second part of the equation, which is highlighted above in red, still applies. They simply don't have the time to respond to the increase in requests for support it would take should they do what you are asking them to do.
RE: Launch of System Blue delayed - waylonlambert - 2015-11-24
As a new member of the forum: I thank all the developers for giving of their time and sharing the fruits of their passion with us. Release Blue when you deem it ready.
Patience is a virtue often ignored and disdained.
n8xbv
RE: Launch of System Blue delayed - kevinmcc - 2016-01-14
Like the updated webpage. Like the addition of system blue pictures.
Looks like minor soldiering and assembly required?
Will there be options to have display and buttons like System Red?
What about adding MOD-1016v8 lightning detector?
Just asking, not concerned as I am an electronics tech.
RE: Launch of System Blue delayed - Tobi - 2016-01-14
I've just recognized by myself that there's a new Blitzortung website with information about the BLUE system.
We made a lot of progress during the last weeks. From what I can say is that we will start with just a few very basic PCBs. This is not the final solution. We will extend it further during the next months. Please stay tuned until an official announcement of the new PCBs.
RE: Launch of System Blue delayed - cutty - 2016-01-14
(2016-01-14, 00:41)kevinmcc Wrote: ...Experimental add in of the AS3935 you are referring to was done by several members with System RED. Results are / were mixed. Most of us didn't bother fooling with it. Search this forum for "AS3935", most postings are likely in the 'internal' boards for operators only.
What about adding MOD-1016v8 lightning detector?
---
You can also find discussions at http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?board=115.0
Search for 'AS3935'
The firmware for RED controller does include support for AS3935, but whether that will be carried over into BLUE, or retained in RED updates is possibly still a matter under consideration.
Note that one issue with the network is quality of data and standardization of systems, so early experimentation or add ons to BLUE are likely to be discouraged to some extent.
Also note that the AS3935 contributes NO data or info to the Blitzortung network...
Cheers!
Mike
RE: Launch of System Blue delayed - mvdswaluw - 2016-01-14
(2016-01-14, 13:53)Tobi Wrote: I've just recognized by myself that there's a new Blitzortung website with information about the BLUE system.
Either you both are seeing things, or I am blind... I Can't seem so find that webpage... ;-)
RE: Launch of System Blue delayed - cutty - 2016-01-14
(2016-01-14, 14:54)mvdswaluw Wrote:(2016-01-14, 13:53)Tobi Wrote: I've just recognized by myself that there's a new Blitzortung website with information about the BLUE system.
Either you both are seeing things, or I am blind... I Can't seem so find that webpage... ;-)
Blitzortung.org / further info / cover your area.
RE: Launch of System Blue delayed - W3DRM - 2016-01-14
(2016-01-14, 14:54)mvdswaluw Wrote:(2016-01-14, 13:53)Tobi Wrote: I've just recognized by myself that there's a new Blitzortung website with information about the BLUE system.
Either you both are seeing things, or I am blind... I Can't seem so find that webpage... ;-)
Have you tried "refreshing" your browser? It sounds like you may be viewing a cached copy of the old webpages. The new ones have a very distinct black navigation bar across the top along with a completely different navigation scheme.
RE: Launch of System Blue delayed - Benedict.Smith - 2016-01-15
(2016-01-14, 00:41)kevinmcc Wrote: What about adding MOD-1016v8 lightning detector?
Just asking, not concerned as I am an electronics tech.
Tried one on my red system, the best thing I can say about it is that it is a pile of junk, don't bother wasting time and money on this as they don't work with any reliability (if at all) and add nothing other than novelty value to the system.
Ben.
RE: Launch of System Blue delayed - wilsonlaidlaw - 2016-03-01
First time on the forum for a few months and not a lot seems to have changed since I last looked. I was looking for a status report on System Blue but cannot find anything newer than some months old. Would appreciate if there is an update somewhere, if someone could advise what the URL is for where that update is posted. I have bought myself a new soldering station in anticipation of it having some work to do, as my old iron is one of those induction jobs, not suited to fine PCB work.
Wilson
RE: Launch of System Blue delayed - Michael.Sanders - 2016-03-01
(2016-03-01, 11:01)wilsonlaidlaw Wrote: First time on the forum for a few months and not a lot seems to have changed since I last looked. I was looking for a status report on System Blue but cannot find anything newer than some months old. Would appreciate if there is an update somewhere, if someone could advise what the URL is for where that update is posted. I have bought myself a new soldering station in anticipation of it having some work to do, as my old iron is one of those induction jobs, not suited to fine PCB work.
Wilson
search for this message, and you'll find some recent into ....
Blitzortung.org Forum › Internal › Blitzortung.org in general
![[Image: arrow_down.png]](https://forum.blitzortung.org/images/arrow_down.png){kind=icon}
› Things seem awfully quiet these days...
RE: Launch of System Blue delayed - Tobi - 2016-03-01
@Michael: This was just in the internal forum.
The first final PCBs for delivery should arrive soon. But we still might need time for modifications - if necessary. As always we start with just a few boards and raise quantities during the next months. Additionally the hardware will still be improved
RE: Launch of System Blue delayed - wilsonlaidlaw - 2016-03-01
Tobi,
Many thanks for the update
Wilson
RE: Launch of System Blue delayed - Bonzo - 2016-03-01
Wilson, you probably missed the preview pics fom the proto on the
'Project Description' tab on the furbished homepage:
http://en.blitzortung.org/cover_your_area.php
PS: Looks very need, but as an RF engineer, I get some headache seeing
the antenna inputs in close proximity to the noisy network connection ...
RE: Launch of System Blue delayed - cutty - 2016-03-01
(2016-03-01, 19:02)Bonzo Wrote: ...Those are not antenna inputs on the BLUE main box.... those are channel signal inputs from the preamps. The H-antennas/preamp, and E-probe/preamp, are typically at some distance from the controller...(E probe should be outside of structures, e.g.) and there is no issue with the network connection, assuming instructions are followed. However, having the antenna/probe/preamps in proximity to computers, etc, can cause issues. Many current "RED" system E amplifiers already run right next to the current RED controller, without issue. This is being simplified with BLUE, going to the current E preamp concept for both fields, with amplifier/processing simply moving to what would correspond to the controller board in system RED. The main amps/processing circuitry can work quite well on the main board, in proximity to the network, GPS and microprocessor. . Again assuming instructions are followed.
PS: Looks very need, but as an RF engineer, I get some headache seeing
the antenna inputs in close proximity to the noisy network connection ...
Also ... 3-30 kHz energy impulses are what we're mainly interested in, not a specific frequency although we expect a BW on BLUE up to about 160 kHz. Lots of filtering, and custom filtering will be enabled when BLUE matures. (Not necessarily capable on initial releases.. only for technically advanced operators)... Because of that 'spectrum of interest', I often think of the system as a 'super digital audio processor" rather than "RF"...
RE: Launch of System Blue delayed - Bonzo - 2016-03-01
It's just a feeling, Cutty!
a scenario: once you have crosstalk from the network- to the
signalcables these cables become antennas and then the signals
come close to the antenna/sensor preamps. The filters will work only
well for differential mode signals. So the out-of-band signals might, under
circumstances, cause nonlinear behaviour of the preamps.
Everything stands or falls with proper grounding.
RE: Launch of System Blue delayed - cutty - 2016-03-01
(2016-03-01, 21:53)Bonzo Wrote: It's just a feeling, Cutty!Yep. One of the things I meant when I mentioned 'follow instructions'...
a scenario: once you have crosstalk from the network- to the
signalcables these cables become antennas and then the signals
come close to the antenna/sensor preamps. The filters will work only
well for differential mode signals. So the out-of-band signals might, under
circumstances, cause nonlinear behaviour of the preamps.
Everything stands or falls with proper grounding.
down to what cables to use.For e.g. Red specifies ONE GROUND only! Specifically, the one on the controller board. Many stations don't even need that one. Our issues haven't been with 'grounds' so much as other interferers, (outside of poor USB power supplies) such as NATO and other Submarine transmitters, remote control lawnmowers, electric fences, etc... and in my case, a Welding Line on a Truck Axle Factory a half mile away, and stupid failing Vapor Street Lights.
The developers pretty much have this in hand...
I'd have to go check, but I don't think BLUE will even call for an external ground... don't remember...
RE: Launch of System Blue delayed - RichoAnd - 2016-03-01
The first filter on controller is a passive low-pass -60dB at 200KHz
We use input transformers to avoid ground loops (H-Field)
There are gain in Pre-Amps (20dB) in H-Field, so signals are already lifted before added the first signal-cable.
Even a close capasitive coupling between network and signal cables, have very low influence - I have never seen it, and I have network and signal cables bundled over severel meters.