Signal graphs
#1
Hi All
I have now finished building the kit and in the testing phase. Things seem to be working but I see no output from my site on the maps. Also I tried switching to manual mode for gain etc (set at 10,10 hp on & off) as suggested in the forum but the signal graph is then empty of a trace.
I am getting the odd flash on the signal led - more so when looking at the graph in automatic mode.
I am getting a good gps signal but on the main status screen it says GPS NO and further down it says authentication no - I have put in my login details but that stays the same.
Any help would be gratefully received.
Regards
Alan
Stations: 2004
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#2
(2017-09-15, 17:48)Alanpenwith Wrote: Hi All
I have now finished building the kit and in the testing phase. Things seem to be working but I see no output from my site on the maps. Also I tried switching to manual mode for gain etc (set at 10,10 hp on & off) as suggested in the forum but the signal graph is then empty of a trace.
I am getting the odd flash on the signal led - more so when looking at the graph in automatic mode.
I am getting a good gps signal but on the main status screen it says GPS NO and further down it says authentication no - I have put in my login details but that stays the same.
Any help would be gratefully received.
Regards
Alan

1. you have a lot of noise.... maybe still too close to computers, etc.
2. you DO have GPS connected?  It won't send without it...
3. 20mm H field ferrites are pretty small. recheck your station configuration page on main BT site...
4. get the antennas away from any interference sources...
                   TwinHollies WeatherCenter  Frankfort KY, USA
  Americas Operators at Sferics.us
        Stations: 689, 1439
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#3
(2017-09-15, 17:48)Alanpenwith Wrote: Hi All
I have now finished building the kit and in the testing phase. Things seem to be working but I see no output from my site on the maps. Also I tried switching to manual mode for gain etc (set at 10,10 hp on & off) as suggested in the forum but the signal graph is then empty of a trace.
I am getting the odd flash on the signal led - more so when looking at the graph in automatic mode.
I am getting a good gps signal but on the main status screen it says GPS NO and further down it says authentication no - I have put in my login details but that stays the same.
Any help would be gratefully received.
Regards
Alan

Hi Alan, Welcome, Here is the latest Picture from the net.

   

Big Grin Yes 20 mm doesn't look right 20 cm perhaps?

In manual I started at about 8 and 5 for the gains and 125 mV for the trigger threshold it seemed to be a good place to start.  Smile

Brian.
Stations: 1856
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#4
Thanks - I have shielded the ferrites to see if it makes a difference. I also realise that the patch cable to the antenna is not shielded so that is on order.
One other odd thing - if I view the controller status the gps led stops flashing after a few minutes and the system locks up. Closing the controller causes a reboot and all then works.
I am still not seeing any trace on the signal graph in the manual setting - ok on automatic.
Alan
Stations: 2004
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#5
(2017-09-16, 12:42)Alanpenwith Wrote: Thanks - I have shielded the ferrites to see if it makes a difference. I also realise that the patch cable to the antenna is not shielded so that is on order.
One other odd thing - if I view the controller status the gps led stops flashing after a few minutes and the system locks up. Closing the controller causes a reboot and all then works.
I am still not seeing any trace on the signal graph in the manual setting - ok on automatic.
Alan

Hi Alan, Can you set all the channels to "do not send" and try one channel at a time. Your latest signal is still has a lot of interference and you have a lot happening at 40 and 80 KHz that seems to be swamping everything. There does appear to be some real signal in there as well, but it is pretty hard to work out what is going on in all of the clutter.

   

Brian.
Stations: 1856
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#6
Hi
I just have channel A set to normal B&C to don not send. Still getting the freeze when using controller (with Google Chrome).
Thanks for the input
Alan
Stations: 2004
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#7
(2017-09-16, 13:42)Alanpenwith Wrote: Hi
I just have channel A set to normal B&C to don not send. Still getting the freeze when using controller (with Google Chrome).
Thanks for the input
Alan

OK Alan That is a bit Clearer.

   

I am going to hazard a guess and say switched mode psu. However there are two different sources of interference.

   

Maybe there will be someone about who is better able to help identify those.

If you have a different PSU handy, that might be the first place to start, to see if you can get a clean bare board with everything running and no interference.

As you seem to have a problem with the GPS, it may be as well to disconnect the amps for the moment and see if you can get that set up, then when that is working, proceed with the amps one at a time.

In my experience, trying to solve more than one problem at once is not normally very successful.

Brian.

Edit, You have changed something while I was typing?

   
Stations: 1856
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#8
Alanpenwith,
the signals from your station only show a strong noise. Try to check the input voltage like this:
Blitzortung.org browser interface of your receiver -> Signals -> Signal tools -> select V_in -> start
and check what you get. If the graph looks like what you got as "signals", the power supply is the problem.
Stations: 1836
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#9
(2017-09-16, 12:42)Alanpenwith Wrote: I also realise that the patch cable to the antenna is not shielded

This won't help, at all. Are you in interference mode most of the time?
Stations: 1075, 1472
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#10
Hi
Yes I am getting interference all the time but the problem now is that as soon as I try to view the controller the gps led goes out and the station freezes. It has got worst since I upgraded to firmware 8.3 but I can't get into the controller long enough to try going back to 8.2.Until I go into the controller the the system appears to be working properly and sending data to the server.
Regards
Alan
Stations: 2004
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#11
Hi
I have found that the system does not like google chrome - things are running better with IE and I think using manual I have got much lower noise.
We'll see
Regards
Aaln
Stations: 2004
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#12
Good morning Alan, I can't see anything yet from your station on the server, but I will check a little later.
Good luck.

Brian.
Stations: 1856
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#13
(2017-09-17, 08:23)Alanpenwith Wrote: I have found that the system does not like google chrome - things are running better with IE and I think using manual I have got much lower noise.

Ok, I find that using the GUI when the controller is under high signal load sometimes result in a crash. Looking at the signals on lightningmaps.org, you seem to be sending hardly any signals to the servers. That might because your station is in interference mode due to excessive noise. If it is, the fault light will be on and probably lots of activity on the signal light. The UTP cable between the H-field preamp and controller MUST be shielded for starters. If you still can't get the GUI stable, disconnect the ferrite sites, the try the GUI. Set to manual, sets the gains right down low, save the config, and then reconnect the ferries. You're aiming initially for almost zero signals. Then wind up the gains slowly and see if you start you start to get signals. Then you are aiming for "just below interference level". Then you can start hunting for noise sources Smile
Stations: 1075, 1472
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#14
Thanks all
I think maybe waiting for the shielded H cable would be sensible (only a couple of days). 
I checked the Vin and it averages 4.8V with rapid fluctuation from 4.78 to 4.82 but looks similar to another I have seen somewhere.
My settings at the moment are A 8x5 hp off noise floor about 10 and B 8x5 hp off noise floor 11 and all the rest disabled. 
I seem to get interference peaks around 40 and 80 - any thoughts about sources of these.
Regards
Alan
Stations: 2004
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#15
(2017-09-17, 16:27)Andrew.Instone-Cowie Wrote: The UTP cable between the H-field preamp and controller MUST be shielded for starters.

That's what the instructions say, but my CAT5 cable (about 15') is not shielded. And I've read several posts where some could not use shielded cable because it introduced a ground loop.
Regards,
Mike
http://www.w0btu.com
Stations: 1977
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#16
Hi Alan, Many people with a station in a normal urban environment would never see a noise floor as low as that!
As mentioned above, it might be better to start with, trying only one channel at a time and even not connect the other channels, until you have at least one working.
The high pass filter might help with the peaks above 25 KHz. I think that is where it starts to really drop off. Switch it on and see if it helps.
It is not so much the actual voltage of the power supply that is the problem, that one does seem to be within the suggested range, but how much interference is imposed on that voltage.
To see that you need an oscilloscope, but a quick test would be to use 3 "C" cell  1.5 volt batteries to switch the system on and just compare the difference.
This is just a test, it would not be economical to run the system like this.
If you have an AM radio you can also listen for any local noise sources, LW would be best, but MW will still work as these types of noise have harmonics that go on for quite high frequencies. Just sweep the band and/or passively listen for computer noise say next to your computer keyboard, fluorescent lights, plasma TVs, fridges, central heating or air conditioning systems etc. 
Then check if anything similar shows up next to your controller or the amplifiers/antennas.
Once you find one source, continue, if possible switching them off as you go, until you have eliminated all that you can, there will always be more, but Rome was not built in a day!.
Move your antennas as far from the noise sources as you can and in some cases you may have to de-noise the actual culprit with ferrite EMI suppressors on the leads running from them.
If it is a commercial article that is making the noise then the Manufacturer, supplier or installer may be able to help reduce the noise with specific filters or internal screening.
Or you may be able to provide extra screening yourself. No, I Don't mean for you to wear a tinfoil hat! Big Grin 
I am sure that you will get it sorted out.
Good Luck!

Brian.

Edit. I believe that a ground loop may have taken out my controller. As it turns out, my computer and the router has a "UPS" and is in affect not at the same earth potential as the mains?
Stations: 1856
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#17
Hi All
I wonder if anyone would recognise the sort of interference I am getting - see attached pic.
Still waiting for a linear power supply.
Thanks
Alan


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
   
Stations: 2004
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#18
That doesn't look too bad in terms of amplitude, here's my current noise floor. (I have the LP filters installed to take out a military VLF transmitter near Blackpool)
   
Edit to add: There is something funny going on with your thresholds though (the dashed lines)?
Stations: 1075, 1472
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#19
(2017-09-21, 07:22)Andrew.Instone-Cowie Wrote: That doesn't look too bad in terms of amplitude, here's my current noise floor. (I have the LP filters installed to take out a military VLF transmitter near Blackpool)

Also looks like you are also getting a bit of 19.6 KHz from Anthorn and 22.1 KHz from Skelton. The amplitude goes up and down over a few cycles as they beat against each other. Partulary noticeable on the red channel.
Cheers
Dave.

Stations: 1627
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#20
Hi All
I now have my linear power supply running and shielded cables. The Vin is showing at 4.50 with a very thin trace although at the supply terminals it is a steady 4.99V.
It has made a small difference and I get quite good signals on channel 1 (watching the live maps my C1 [N/S ferrite] coincides with observed flashes and the site comes up on maps from time to time) - but very little in signals on C2 [E/W]. C1 has quite a lot of 40,60,80 Khz noise but still works. Maybe LP filters ?  I soldered tails on the ferrite leads and thought there might be high resistance across the leads but it was nil.
In preparation for fitting filters I looked for the jumper mentioned but could not find it on blue board 19.3.
Regards
Alan
Stations: 2004
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