Robotic lawnmower interference?
#1
Hello,

I have a big problem.

Since my neigbour owns a Husqverna Automower, my station isn't useable anymore. I get Interference all the time!

I checked the internet and found out that the mower uses a magnetic field, inducted by a wire arround the lawn, not to get lost.

Have someone a idea how I can get online again? At the moment a use a frame antenna, would it help to change to a ferrit rod?

Or how I apply filters or something else what my damp this frequencies...

My Station is number 410.

At the moment it's online, but I'll switch it off soon, not to spam the network with a lot of false signals....

And here is my lightingtracker web access:
http://smart2theworld.no-ip.org:8888/

Greetings

Benedikt
Stations: 410
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#2
As it is magnetic, maybe you can use an E-Field antenna
Stations: 584, 585, 2017
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#3
There has already been a discussion in our internal forum (search for mower or automower). An automower is one of the worst things that can happen! We have a solution for the RED stations, but even that is only a workaround. As you have a GREEN station, you can try Richos suggestion and/or maybe you can move the station to another place. But don't put too much effort in fixing this. Mowing the lawn of your neighbor by yourself could be another solution Big Grin

I have the fear that we will have more and more trouble with those stupid robot mowers for lazy gardeners in the upcoming years. Angry Maybe some ham-radio guys can ask their government agency, why (or whether) such electromagnetic pollution is allowed and what can be done against that. I don't know why those mowers need several 100 impulses per second (!) to recognize their border wire. The same functionality could be easily done with just one (or slightly more) impulses per second. Additionally the border wire should be disabled when the mower is not in use. As far as I know, it's enabled all the time (at least on some of the mower brands).
Stations: 538, 672, 1534, 1555, 1696, 1712
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#4
Hello,

I'm looking into the possibility to contribute to the network by, when new PCBs are available, buying a kit.

However, I have a robotic lawnmower and the boundary wire is supposedly sending out a signal that can interfere with for example lightning detectors.

My question is: is there any chance of running a lightning detector successfully if I have a robotic lawnmower? My idea was to put the antenna in the attic of the house (1 floor only), so it would be about 4 meters above the lawn.

I know that it is impossible to give a 100% correct answer, but I accept guesses as well. Smile
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#5
It has never work with a Husqvarna automower...
Clément
Stations: 252, 680, 733, 1440
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#6
//forum.blitzortung.org/showthread.php?tid=579
Stations: 538, 672, 1534, 1555, 1696, 1712
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#7
(2014-07-30, 17:16)DelandeC Wrote: It has never work with a Husqvarna automower...

And it is a Husqvarna I own... Hm, I guess I will not be contributing to the blitzortung project after all... That's a pity.
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#8
(2014-07-30, 17:16)DelandeC Wrote: It has never work with a Husqvarna automower...

I have a Gardena (made by Husqvarna) automower, Blitzortung works...., but get noise signal every second from mower...
Stations: 804
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#9
(2014-07-30, 19:13)zalama Wrote:
(2014-07-30, 17:16)DelandeC Wrote: It has never work with a Husqvarna automower...

I have a Gardena (made by Husqvarna) automower, Blitzortung works...., but get noise signal every second from mower...

Interesting... The Gardena ones are the same hardware as Husqvarna - only the software is different. Maybe it might work after all then...
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#10
(2014-07-30, 19:40)mekhall Wrote:
(2014-07-30, 19:13)zalama Wrote:
(2014-07-30, 17:16)DelandeC Wrote: It has never work with a Husqvarna automower...

I have a Gardena (made by Husqvarna) automower, Blitzortung works...., but get noise signal every second from mower...

Interesting... The Gardena ones are the same hardware as Husqvarna - only the software is different. Maybe it might work after all then...

You must adjust noise trigger quite high in manual mode for avoid interference, you cannot get weak signals, but it is better than nothing. Range of my detector is now about 1000 km, good enough for me.
Stations: 804
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#11
(2014-07-30, 19:57)zalama Wrote:
(2014-07-30, 19:40)mekhall Wrote:
(2014-07-30, 19:13)zalama Wrote:
(2014-07-30, 17:16)DelandeC Wrote: It has never work with a Husqvarna automower...

I have a Gardena (made by Husqvarna) automower, Blitzortung works...., but get noise signal every second from mower...

Interesting... The Gardena ones are the same hardware as Husqvarna - only the software is different. Maybe it might work after all then...

You must adjust noise trigger quite high in manual mode for avoid interference, you cannot get weak signals, but it is better than nothing. Range of my detector is now about 1000 km, good enough for me.

1000km is quite far. I'd be happy to join if my setup could detect lightning from that distance.
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#12
Two thoughts here:
  1. Does the robotic lawnmover run continuously or only when you want to mow your grass? If the latter, then it would only be a problem when you mow.
  2. Most new members/owners of a Blitzortung system wrongly believe the longer the distance they get from their detectors, the better it is. When you have a large network like Blitzortung does, the best results come from everyone contributing their shorter distance detections to the entire network. Setting the gain of your detector too high results in many signals being submitted to the servers and thus, creating unnecessary traffic from data that is not used. It is the quality of those signals that is important, not the distance of any given detector. Remember, we should be thinking QUALITY not QUANTITY when it comes to lightning data detection.
Don - W3DRM - Minden, Nevada - U.S.A. --- Blitzortung Station: 808 --- FlightRadar24 ID: F-KRNO2
Davis Wireless VP2, VWS 15.00 p03, StartWatch, VirtualVP, VPLive, WL 5.9.3, Image Salsa, Win7 Ultimate-SP1
--- Logitech C920 Pro USB webcam w/Hubble fix
[Image: cvwx-banner.gif]
Stations: 808
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#13
(2014-07-30, 21:48)W3DRM Wrote: Two thoughts here:
  1. Does the robotic lawnmover run continuously or only when you want to mow your grass? If the latter, then it would only be a problem when you mow.
  2. Most new members/owners of a Blitzortung system wrongly believe the longer the distance they get from their detectors, the better it is. When you have a large network like Blitzortung does, the best results come from everyone contributing their shorter distance detections to the entire network. Setting the gain of your detector too high results in many signals being submitted to the servers and thus, creating unnecessary traffic from data that is not used. It is the quality of those signals that is important, not the distance of any given detector. Remember, we should be thinking QUALITY not QUANTITY when it comes to lightning data detection.
I had the same thought, Don... Why do these things have to run 24/7? Do they treat it like a pet fence, afraid the lawnmower will escape and get hit by a car? Big Grin I've said it before... "Get Sheep" They'll keep it cut short, fertilize it, provide warm material for cold weather, and are a renewable resource, if you don't eat 'em.Lightning
                   TwinHollies WeatherCenter  Frankfort KY, USA
  Americas Operators at Sferics.us
        Stations: 689, 1439
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#14
(2014-07-30, 22:40)Cutty Wrote: "Get Sheep"

Alpaca, thankyou! Sheep are just so stupid.... and destructive to the ground! Smile
Stations: 812, 848, 849, 852
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#15
(2014-07-30, 22:40)Cutty Wrote:
(2014-07-30, 21:48)W3DRM Wrote: Two thoughts here:
  1. Does the robotic lawnmover run continuously or only when you want to mow your grass? If the latter, then it would only be a problem when you mow.
  2. Most new members/owners of a Blitzortung system wrongly believe the longer the distance they get from their detectors, the better it is. When you have a large network like Blitzortung does, the best results come from everyone contributing their shorter distance detections to the entire network. Setting the gain of your detector too high results in many signals being submitted to the servers and thus, creating unnecessary traffic from data that is not used. It is the quality of those signals that is important, not the distance of any given detector. Remember, we should be thinking QUALITY not QUANTITY when it comes to lightning data detection.
I had the same thought, Don... Why do these things have to run 24/7? Do they treat it like a pet fence, afraid the lawnmower will escape and get hit by a car? Big Grin I've said it before... "Get Sheep" They'll keep it cut short, fertilize it, provide warm material for cold weather, and are a renewable resource, if you don't eat 'em.Lightning

After reading over some of the sales documentation for these robotic lawnmowers, I think the device is a prime subject to be stolen from a yard. Thus, they have built-in theft protection that detects when the mower is picked-up and/or removed. They must have some kind of a sensing circuit that determines when the mower is moved without an internal command. So, the rest of the world has to suffer due to their inherent possibility that the device may be stolen.

(2014-07-31, 01:07)Ross.Wheeler Wrote:
(2014-07-30, 22:40)Cutty Wrote: "Get Sheep"

Alpaca, thankyou! Sheep are just so stupid.... and destructive to the ground! Smile

Goats are also used for the same purpose...
Don - W3DRM - Minden, Nevada - U.S.A. --- Blitzortung Station: 808 --- FlightRadar24 ID: F-KRNO2
Davis Wireless VP2, VWS 15.00 p03, StartWatch, VirtualVP, VPLive, WL 5.9.3, Image Salsa, Win7 Ultimate-SP1
--- Logitech C920 Pro USB webcam w/Hubble fix
[Image: cvwx-banner.gif]
Stations: 808
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#16
(2014-07-31, 02:10)W3DRM Wrote: Goats are also used for the same purpose...

Goats? You may as well try to keep the wind in your paddock, as a goat!
Stations: 812, 848, 849, 852
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#17
Well, it is not the lawnmower itself that emits the signal. There is a charging station that the lawnmower uses to charge its batteries when not mowing. This charging station (I'm talking Husqvarna here), is where a electrical wire is connected that goes all around the garden, dug down a few cm in the law. Just like an electric fence, only dug down.
The lawn mower, when active, detects this boundary wire and treats it as a wall. There is also a guide cable that the lawn mower uses to find its way home. The mower tries to follow the guide wire at a random offset as to not create tracks in the lawn.
It is the boundary wire and guide cable that emits the signals, generated by the charging station.
The charging station itself emits a signal that is used on the "final approach" as well, through antennas in the charging station itself.

In theory the charging station could disable the signal when the mower is "at home", but I doubt that is the case.

I guess these things are all CE-approved and stuff. I've read that now when robomowers are getting more popular (they work really great), they are starting to interfere each other. The various manufacturers have said that they are aware of the problem and working on it... But with the existing models I guess we just have to live with it.
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#18
(2014-07-31, 02:10)W3DRM Wrote:
(2014-07-30, 22:40)Cutty Wrote:
(2014-07-30, 21:48)W3DRM Wrote: Two thoughts here:
  1. Does the robotic lawnmover run continuously or only when you want to mow your grass? If the latter, then it would only be a problem when you mow.
  2. Most new members/owners of a Blitzortung system wrongly believe the longer the distance they get from their detectors, the better it is. When you have a large network like Blitzortung does, the best results come from everyone contributing their shorter distance detections to the entire network. Setting the gain of your detector too high results in many signals being submitted to the servers and thus, creating unnecessary traffic from data that is not used. It is the quality of those signals that is important, not the distance of any given detector. Remember, we should be thinking QUALITY not QUANTITY when it comes to lightning data detection.
I had the same thought, Don... Why do these things have to run 24/7? Do they treat it like a pet fence, afraid the lawnmower will escape and get hit by a car? Big Grin I've said it before... "Get Sheep" They'll keep it cut short, fertilize it, provide warm material for cold weather, and are a renewable resource, if you don't eat 'em.Lightning

After reading over some of the sales documentation for these robotic lawnmowers, I think the device is a prime subject to be stolen from a yard. Thus, they have built-in theft protection that detects when the mower is picked-up and/or removed. They must have some kind of a sensing circuit that determines when the mower is moved without an internal command. So, the rest of the world has to suffer due to their inherent possibility that the device may be stolen.

(2014-07-31, 01:07)Ross.Wheeler Wrote:
(2014-07-30, 22:40)Cutty Wrote: "Get Sheep"

Alpaca, thankyou! Sheep are just so stupid.... and destructive to the ground! Smile

Goats are also used for the same purpose...

Sheeps and goats are very clever comparing Gardena, never seen so stupid logic as in this mower.
Stations: 804
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#19
Are there any measurements I can do to see how large and what kind of interference my Husqvarna mower produces? I have a cheapish oscilloscope and a nice multimeter...
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#20
(2014-07-31, 20:57)mekhall Wrote: Are there any measurements I can do to see how large and what kind of interference my Husqvarna mower produces? I have a cheapish oscilloscope and a nice multimeter...

Hook your scope up to the output of the amplifier board, then try different positions for the antennae till you minimise the signal from the lawnmower.
The lawnmower signal should show up very easily on your scope.
If you don't have a Blitzortung system yet then just build a loop antennae and connect that to the scope set to its most sensitive input, you may get better results with a small signal diode in series with the loop, this should work close to the lawnmower system.
Ben.
RED Station: 878,   Flightradar24: F-EGLF1,  Open Glider Network: Aldersht2, PlanePlotter: M7.
Stations: 878
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