Data Access
#1
Hi Folks,

I have been seeing several members requesting access to the network data without having a participating station.  I hope the following information will save the developers some time in answering emails on this subject, so they can continue developing System Blue unimpeded. 

Access to the data is granted after you have a completed and registered station that is sending data to the network. The data is not to be used for commercial purposes and/or monetary gain. To my knowledge, there aren't any exceptions to this. Any exceptions would have to come from Egon and/or Tobi.

Respectfully,

John Sacrey
Station: 1387
Stations: 1387
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#2
Thank you for the reminder John! Smile
Clément
Stations: 252, 680, 733, 1440
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#3
Correct! Exclamation
Stations: 753, 762, 1403
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#4
(2015-11-07, 08:15)Egon Wrote: Correct! Exclamation

Let's summarize -
Note also the privacy policies which reflect general worldwide laws regarding participant's information and some related data.
http://www.blitzortung.org/Webpages/index.php?page=7

The authors of the provided data are "all" participants of the network.
It is not the intention of the project to
publish raw data,
to provide access to raw data,
or to market raw data to others.
This removes a main motivation to join the project and leads to a disintegration of the network.
A commercial use of data from Blitzortung.org is prohibited.

The participants can use these data for
presenting their own derived maps
or statistical evaluations on their own web sites.
Participants can collect the data to create a separate private archive
and

provide access by other users to maps and statistical information created from their own archive.

Stations: 689, 791, 1439
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#5
Hello,

I've been following the news regarding the 'blue' detector for quite sometime and want to contribute to gain access to this raw data. However, with the further delays, I must ask if there is anyway to gain access even with the delays. I would be more than happy to purchase a sensor that could be 'donated' to a data-sparse region. My region (Sweden), is quite data-rich, so my sensor wouldn't help the overall network (outside of redundancy). If this option is not available, is there a possibility of paying for the raw data on a yearly basis?

The data I require is not for commercial use what-so-ever, and would fit within the confines of the forum post above. Furthermore, I would be willing to talk to Egon and/or Tobi in depth with what I plan to do with the data to prove such. However, I'm not willing to discuss it on a public forum.

Thank you for reading,

-Mel
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#6
Hi All

Just a random thought. Can a participant be a business? (put down the pitchforks and hear me out)

I'm keen to get a System Blue for personal use, but the company I work for could also benefit from having their own System Blue. We have a network of assets which don't take kindly to having 30kA pumped through them and I could see the merit in hooking them in to the network to correlate outages with strikes.

They wouldn't be publishing the raw data, providing access to raw data, or marketing raw data to others, but rather just using the data in-house (e.g. "There is an outage here, and there was a strike nearby - the two are possibly related"). It wouldn't be used for insurance claims or anything similar, purely maintenance of the network.

So what's the thinking on this? Can a station be a business, or does it have to be a person?
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#7
We already have several companies, but with private persons as owners. This is no problem as long as you don't make money with the data, i.e. sell the raw data. Additionally our data is just for fun and nobody should rely on it, what means that it's not intended for protection of life and property. We can not decide on which specific purpose the data can be used or should not be used. The user has to decide that. We always recommend to ask commercial lightning data providers for commercial purposes. Their quality and reliability is much better and they exists because of this.
Stations: 538, 672, 1534, 1555, 1696, 1712, 2034, 2219
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#8
Thanks Tobi,

They are looking at the commercial provider as well but, apart from being very expensive, I believe their error ellipses on the strikes are quite large (>5 km).

Out of interest, what is the usual spatial accuracy for the Blitztortung network given 2 stations 50 km apart (yes, I know it's a 'how long is a piece of string' question, but just a ballpark figure)

Cheers

David
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#9
Hi,

I want to develop an APP for photographers, with several features for profissional and amateur photographers.

JUST one of these features would be get your data, and help drive photographers to lighting to take lightning pictures.

If my App is not free this is against your policy ?

Thanks in advance,
Paulo
Reply
#10
(2016-04-10, 21:10)DavidEA Wrote: Thanks Tobi,

They are looking at the commercial provider as well but, apart from being very expensive, I believe their error ellipses on the strikes are quite large (>5 km).

Out of interest, what is the usual spatial accuracy for the Blitztortung network given 2 stations 50 km apart (yes, I know it's a 'how long is a piece of string' question, but just a ballpark figure)

Cheers

David
First, 2 stations 50km apart won't detect a strike.  It takes a minimum of 4 stations, and in most areas, up to 17 stations may be used, with the best signals used. The issue any system has, commercial or Blitzortung, with 'deviation' or accuracy, is tha fact that strokes can be many miles long, and it's very difficult to detect exactly an originating, or an ending point.  Many times Blitzortung, if conditions are right, will nail strikes <2 or 3km, but 5km isn't bad in most respects ... Incidentally, stations within 50km may be ignored completely in the stroke computations, because of the extreme energy, and many, many lower energy sferics in a cell.  In fact, it's preferable that, under those type of conditions, that those stations stop transmitting, ....  and there's software settings that affect that.

Stations: 689, 791, 1439
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#11
(2016-05-11, 16:24)psper Wrote: Hi,

I want to develop an APP for photographers, with several features for profissional and amateur photographers.

JUST one of these features would be get your data, and help drive photographers to lighting to take lightning pictures.

If my App is not free this is against your policy ?

Thanks in advance,
Paulo

Yes.

Stations: 689, 791, 1439
Reply
#12
(2016-05-11, 16:52)Cutty Wrote:
(2016-05-11, 16:24)psper Wrote: Hi,

I want to develop an APP for photographers, with several features for profissional and amateur photographers.

JUST one of these features would be get your data, and help drive photographers to lighting to take lightning pictures.

If my App is not free this is against your policy ?

Thanks in advance,
Paulo

Yes.

Lightning detection has been something I've been interested in for some time.  I've seen a number of lightning detectors including IC level products, but so far none have been very useful for real world use.  This project looks like it could fill this role usefully.

I guess I don't understand what this project is for.   I see a map which seems to show relatively real time data through a browser interface.  What I don't see are any apps or anything that would allow the data to be used in a real world setting.  I also see this post that seems to say the data can not be used by a product which participants might want to use, if that product is sold rather than given away. 

Is this entire project purely a hobby?  Is there no interest in using the data for practical, real world applications?

I see that there currently are no boards to be bought since the project is in mid switch over to the new Blue boards.  How expensive are the blue units?  It is also not clear to me if the kit comes with all the parts or if the user has to buy their own parts to assemble with the board.  It looks like a case is provided.  Is there a parts list somewhere?  Is the hardware open source?  What about the software?

Rick C.
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#13
The project might be a hobby for a lot of participants and contributors, but it is much more than just a hobby when combining all the work of the community. ;-)

What do you mean with real world applications?
Stations: 538, 672, 1534, 1555, 1696, 1712, 2034, 2219
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#14
(2016-06-26, 21:21)Tobi Wrote: The project might be a hobby for a lot of participants and contributors, but it is much more than just a hobby when combining all the work of the community. ;-)

What do you mean with real world applications?

You say it is "much more than just a hobby", but to what end then?  I'm just not getting what the purpose of this project is?  

By real world applications I mean something other than just making pretty pictures.  For example, an app on a cell phone to warn of impending storms.  Open Street Maps started small, but their maps can now be used in commercial GPS receivers which makes those devices more open.  Many apps are available to use the OSM data. 

I'm not trying to knock what you are doing.  I think it is great.  But I don't follow what direction the project is going and it seems to have some very serious limitations in how the collected data can be used. 

BTW, I am an engineer who has designed and put into production small designs like this.  If anyone would like some help with the effort to get the Blue units out the door, I can do that.  I believe you guys are doing all this in Germany.  Any interest in making unit in the US?
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#15
(2016-06-27, 14:21)gnuarm Wrote:
(2016-06-26, 21:21)Tobi Wrote: The project might be a hobby for a lot of participants and contributors, but it is much more than just a hobby when combining all the work of the community. ;-)

What do you mean with real world applications?

You say it is "much more than just a hobby", but to what end then?  I'm just not getting what the purpose of this project is?  

By real world applications I mean something other than just making pretty pictures.  For example, an app on a cell phone to warn of impending storms.  Open Street Maps started small, but their maps can now be used in commercial GPS receivers which makes those devices more open.  Many apps are available to use the OSM data. 

I'm not trying to knock what you are doing.  I think it is great.  But I don't follow what direction the project is going and it seems to have some very serious limitations in how the collected data can be used. 

BTW, I am an engineer who has designed and put into production small designs like this.  If anyone would like some help with the effort to get the Blue units out the door, I can do that.  I believe you guys are doing all this in Germany.  Any interest in making unit in the US?
Hi,

The data is being used for real world applications. There is an app called Blitzortung Live for iOS. I believe there is an Android version, too. Both apps as free for anyone to use. There are settings in the app you can use to set an alarm, banner, etc. to go off when lightning gets within a certain distance set by the user. It worked just fine for me early this morning.

I will quote what one of the Moderators wrote earlier in the year regarding this very subject.

From Cutty:

Note also the privacy policies which reflect general worldwide laws regarding participant's information and some related data.
http://www.blitzortung.org/Webpages/index.php?page=7

The authors of the provided data are "all" participants of the network.
It is not the intention of the project to 
publish raw data
to provide access to raw data
or to market raw data to others
This removes a main motivation to join the project and leads to a disintegration of the network. 
A commercial use of data from Blitzortung.org is prohibited.

The participants can use these data for 
presenting their own derived maps 
or statistical evaluations on their own web sites. 
Participants can collect the data to create a separate private archive 
and

provide access by other users to maps and statistical information created from their own archive.

In addition, to my knowledge there isn't ANY other "near real time" lightning data you can watch that is free for anyone to look at without spending lots of money for a subscription to USLDN, etc.

Respectfully,

John Sacrey
Benton, AR
Station: 1387
Stations: 1387
Reply
#16
(2016-06-27, 16:12)John.Sacrey Wrote:
(2016-06-27, 14:21)gnuarm Wrote:
(2016-06-26, 21:21)Tobi Wrote: The project might be a hobby for a lot of participants and contributors, but it is much more than just a hobby when combining all the work of the community. ;-)

What do you mean with real world applications?

You say it is "much more than just a hobby", but to what end then?  I'm just not getting what the purpose of this project is?  

By real world applications I mean something other than just making pretty pictures.  For example, an app on a cell phone to warn of impending storms.  Open Street Maps started small, but their maps can now be used in commercial GPS receivers which makes those devices more open.  Many apps are available to use the OSM data. 

I'm not trying to knock what you are doing.  I think it is great.  But I don't follow what direction the project is going and it seems to have some very serious limitations in how the collected data can be used. 

BTW, I am an engineer who has designed and put into production small designs like this.  If anyone would like some help with the effort to get the Blue units out the door, I can do that.  I believe you guys are doing all this in Germany.  Any interest in making unit in the US?
Hi,

The data is being used for real world applications. There is an app called Blitzortung Live for iOS. I believe there is an Android version, too. Both apps as free for anyone to use. There are settings in the app you can use to set an alarm, banner, etc. to go off when lightning gets within a certain distance set by the user. It worked just fine for me early this morning.

I will quote what one of the Moderators wrote earlier in the year regarding this very subject.

From Cutty:

Note also the privacy policies which reflect general worldwide laws regarding participant's information and some related data.
http://www.blitzortung.org/Webpages/index.php?page=7

The authors of the provided data are "all" participants of the network.
It is not the intention of the project to 
publish raw data
to provide access to raw data
or to market raw data to others
This removes a main motivation to join the project and leads to a disintegration of the network. 
A commercial use of data from Blitzortung.org is prohibited.

The participants can use these data for 
presenting their own derived maps 
or statistical evaluations on their own web sites. 
Participants can collect the data to create a separate private archive 
and

provide access by other users to maps and statistical information created from their own archive.

In addition, to my knowledge there isn't ANY other "near real time" lightning data you can watch that is free for anyone to look at without spending lots of money for a subscription to USLDN, etc.

Respectfully,

John Sacrey
Benton, AR

You posted a link, but it only takes me to the main web page.  That is a problem I have, finding information on the web site.  Where would I find info on the apps?  A google search turned up info on the iPhone app, but not the Android app. 

Much of what I read in the forum is not clear to me.  An example is the quote of Cutty you provide. 

"This removes a main motivation to join the project and leads to a disintegration of the network." 

It is not clear to me just what "this" means.  Is it the prohibition of the use of raw data or the use of raw data?  

I would be interested in looking at the data to learn more about lightning strikes.  Is that prohibited?  Or is viewing of maps and statistical data the only use allowed? 

Regards
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#17
(2016-06-29, 00:05)gnuarm Wrote: Much of what I read in the forum is not clear to me.  An example is the quote of Cutty you provide. 

"This removes a main motivation to join the project and leads to a disintegration of the network." 

It is not clear to me just what "this" means.  Is it the prohibition of the use of raw data or the use of raw data?  

I would be interested in looking at the data to learn more about lightning strikes.  Is that prohibited?  Or is viewing of maps and statistical data the only use allowed? 

Regards

It means that if everybody has access to the raw data, fewer people will become involved in the project. Makes sense right?  the network will never obtain its potential for accuracy, etc, if nobody builds stations, contributes, and sends good data... instead enjoying the fruits of other folks' labor and pocketbook...

What would 'looking at the data' teach you about lightning?  Just curious what you expect that data to contain?
Perhaps we need to start with some basic links ... :
The Lightning Flash
http://en.blitzortung.org/cover_your_area.php
Now, in case you missed it on the "Cover your Area" link"
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KzPZ...1467161755
Sorry, but that document is still being finalized, but you should get the idea...
Other Links you are having issues finding"
http://en.blitzortung.org/contact.php#contribution_4  toward the bottom of the page/.//
http://en.blitzortung.org/archive_data.php
http://www.lightningmaps.org/
https://www.lightningmaps.org/apps?lang=en
Now, if there's an issue with those apps, direct question to the APP DEVELOPERS -- Not Blitzortung folks on this forum!

And foundation documents...
http://wwlln.net/publications/dowden.toga.article.pdf
http://tinyurl.com/hlutzze
http://www.springer.com/us/book/9781402090783

Stations: 689, 791, 1439
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#18
The current access to the data is not fixed forever. There will be some changes sometime in the future, bot not within the next few weeks.
Stations: 538, 672, 1534, 1555, 1696, 1712, 2034, 2219
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#19
Hi,

Is it possible to directly integrate this new map into the free part of my smartphone / tablet application, in keeping with your data usage policy?

http://map.blitzortung.org/

Thank you for your answer.
Alexandre.
Stations: 507
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#20
(2019-04-25, 21:07)meteovergne Wrote: Hi,

Is it possible to directly integrate this new map into the free part of my smartphone / tablet application, in keeping with your data usage policy?

http://map.blitzortung.org/

Thank you for your answer.
Alexandre.


Could someone answer me? It would be niceWink The answer is perhaps obvious but I wish above all to respect the data access policy of this great service. Thank you !
Stations: 507
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