Wi-fi link to System Blue over 400'
#1
Question 
I am thinking about relocating my controller and antennas from my house to a metal pole barn between 300' and 450' from my house, away from the RFI and overhead power lines. Since there is foliage between the house and that barn, I'm thinking that I need something else such as an access point and small Yagi at each end.  [Image: huh.gif] 

There is CAT5 cable between the house and a point that's about 75' from that barn, but it is no longer continuous and likely has water in it. Besides, isn't 450' pushing it for CAT5?

Any suggestions would be appreciated!   [Image: smile.gif]
Regards,
Mike W.
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Stations: 1977
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#2
I used to share a Tooway satellite internet connection with a neighbour with a wifi link from his house, where the dish etc was situated to mine. A distance of 871 feet. He had an omni outdoor antenna (against a wall facing me - which may have helped) and because of intervening properties with wifi I used a yagi in a tube. Quite neat - about 4 inches diameter and 2 1/2 feet long. Both ends had pretty standard access points - no boosters or anything, The system worked very well.
Actually the yagi is redundant now as we (neighbour and I) have gone over to a mobile network link which is faster and we get more bandwidth for our money.
The yagi is a bit scruffy now - we get a lot of green lichen type growth but if you'd like to pay the postage from Cornwall (I guess you're UK based) you'd be welcome to have it. I've also got a spare omni antenna.
(I just checked your site and see it is USA so guess my last remark would make it too costly - the antennas are not expensive anyway)

Regards
Alan
Stations: 2004
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#3
(2018-05-07, 17:59)Alanpenwith Wrote: I used to share a Tooway satellite internet connection with a neighbour with a wifi link from his house, where the dish etc was situated to mine. A distance of 871 feet. He had an omni outdoor antenna (against a wall facing me - which may have helped) and because of intervening properties with wifi I used a yagi in a tube. Quite neat - about 4 inches diameter and 2 1/2 feet long. Both ends had pretty standard access points - no boosters or anything, The system worked very well.
Actually the yagi is redundant now as we (neighbour and I)  have gone over to a mobile network link which is faster and we get more bandwidth for our money.
The yagi is a bit scruffy now - we get a lot of green lichen type growth but if you'd like to pay the postage from Cornwall (I guess you're UK based) you'd be welcome to have it. I've also got a spare omni antenna.
(I just checked your site and see it is USA so guess my last remark would make it too costly - the antennas are not expensive anyway)

Regards
Alan

This is interesting! Thanks, Alan. 

I don't have anything to plug the Yagi into. I assume that I would need an access point with an antenna connector and Yagi antenna at each end. (I have never done any wi-fi link like this before).

In any case, postal mail might not be that expensive.
Regards,
Mike W.
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Stations: 1977
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#4
(2018-05-07, 16:15)mwaters Wrote: I am thinking about relocating my controller and antennas from my house to a metal pole barn between 300' and 450' from my house, away from the RFI and overhead power lines. Since there is foliage between the house and that barn, I'm thinking that I need something else such as an access point and small Yagi at each end.  [Image: huh.gif] 

There is CAT5 cable between the house and a point that's about 75' from that barn, but it is no longer continuous and likely has water in it. Besides, isn't 450' pushing it for CAT5?

Any suggestions would be appreciated!   [Image: smile.gif]

Mike, to answer your last question first, yes 450' feet is pushing the limits. Industry standard is 380' (100meters).

In a nutshell, for the link you need two access points setup in bridge mode = your network cable. Some access points does have dual mode capabilities, bridge and client mode. Client mode is what most of us run to allow devices to connect to the wireless system. Other AP's is either or and depends how old or what make and model.

Most people opt for a dedicated bridge setup. The reason is we normally place the client AP in a central location to provide optimum coverage inside a building. This result in low to no coverage outside.

Anyway look at Ubiquiti Nanobeam M5-16. We use these at work all the time and 450' feet will be no problem.
Theses come as a complete pre-configured kit.

https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-LocoM5-C...PX3YPVX75C

or this one, but might be to much for your distance.

[/url]https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-NBE-M5-16-NanoBeam-Complete-Pre-Configured/dp/B01ETXEMRU/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1525719952&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=ubiquiti+nanobeam+m5-16&psc=1
[url=https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-NBE-M5-16-NanoBeam-Complete-Pre-Configured/dp/B01ETXEMRU/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1525719952&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=ubiquiti+nanobeam+m5-16&psc=1]
Stations: 2100
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#5
I also agree with Ubiquiti. They do have a good track record for P2P gear in commercial applications.
Kevin McCormick KB0UOI
Macomb, IL USA
Stations: 1539
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#6
Wow! Thanks! This is much less expensive than I would have guessed. I'll check it out more thoroughly tomorrow.
Regards,
Mike W.
Station information
Stations: 1977
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#7
The orginal community broadband service here used 2.4 GHz WiFi with link lengths up to ten miles... Admitedly at those distances small (15") dishes were at each end. But shorter links of 3 or 4 miles had yagis each end.

450' shouldn't be too difficult as with all RF get the antennas as high and as in the clear as possible with the least obstruted path. "As high and as in the clear as possible" can mean a WiFi device with fixed aerial(s) sat on the inside of an upstairs window that faces the right direction. The other end might be more of an issue as I take it a "metal pole barn" means roof and walls made of metal so the antenna(s) will have to be outside of that. The Ubiquity stuff is pretty good, quite often everthing "goes on the pole" and just has a Cat5 cable to it. Be aware that some Ubiquity kit uses 24 V passive PoE and other proper IEE PoE.

Cat5, 450', outside the spec for maximum and 100% reliable performance but we aren't pushing either of those. Though I'm not sure if the 100 m limit is down to electrical things like loss and waveform shape or it's timing. I'd be a bit wary of running a cable between two buildings, different earth potentials etc. OK ethernet ports (should be) transformer isolated up to a couple of kV but the tend to be tiddly things and induced surges can force the magic smoke out of them rather too easily .

How about fibre? Avoids all the electrical problems and probably give a gigabit, depending on the media convertors or SFP modules. 4 core exterior (unarmoured) fibre cable is very cheap, 40p/m. Bear in mind you'll probably need two working cores. Terminating it is the tricky bit, you'd either have to find someone to do it or buy a preterminated cable of suitable length.
Cheers
Dave.

Stations: 1627
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#8
This is intriguing, Dave! Lots of useful information here, and I appreciate this advice.
I'm on pretty good terms with the telephone guy, and they have a cable terminator. However, I have no experience with media convertors or SFP modules, though. Are they expensive?
Regards,
Mike W.
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Stations: 1977
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#9
(2018-05-16, 20:17)mwaters Wrote: I'm on pretty good terms with the telephone guy, and they have a cable terminator. However, I have no experience with  media convertors or SFP modules, though. Are they expensive?

I'd sort of expect a telephone company fibre engineer to have a "splicer" rather than a "terminator", though they may have both. Most of his work would be joining (splicing) one fibre to another rather than fitting a connector to an end.

Media convertors and SFP modules sit in the GBP30 to GBP50 range(*) and you'd two, one for each end. Media convertors are stand alone boxes that take power, ethernet and fibre conections. An SFP module fits into a SFP slot in, say, an ethernet switch and just takes the fibre.

Fibre is good but there are quite a few variations in the fibre itself and the connectors, which can give a steep learning curve. Ruling out multi mode fibre makes things a lot less complicated and effectively removes distance limits. Even the cheap and cheerful single mode fibre kit will do 10 to 15 km. Multi mode is 200 m to 2 km max.

I'd expect a fibre installation to cost more than a wireless one but ought to be more reliable and certainly faster, full duplex gigabit.

(*) Or up to several hundred GBP if you want something that'll provide 10 Gbps, full duplex, over 40 km+ of single mode fibre.
Cheers
Dave.

Stations: 1627
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